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Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
13
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ore compression is fine. If people can't find enough of it, the simple reason is that they do not pay enough for it to be an incentive (basic market rule and all).
The whining about the lack of compressed ore is basically people who want to buy compressed ore at the ore price +1 %. That is not going to happen. Set up a buy order at a good enough price and people will compress the ore and do the logistics for it. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 17:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote: Price signals do not work when the producers are too dimwitted to respond to them.
So basically you are saying people are too dumb to make a profit in EvE and the market is broken when the market is ruthless for pretty much other item. I am pretty sure that is it and not you being a cheapskate.
Here is what i suspect: The market accurately reflects the effort and much volume is handled via private contracts.
You can currently buy plenty of compressed veldspar at a 19% markup in Jita. Seems fair to me considered the hauling around issue.
Here is a thought:
a.) pay the extra fee to the people who do the logistics of buying ore, hauling it, compressing it, and hauling it back
b.) befriend some highsec miner corporation to get a stable deal
c.) recruit miners for your 0.0 operation (because that is what this is about) and stop treating them like ****.
Either way the easy mode mineral logistics is gone for now. HTFU. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Querns wrote:
A) We're already doing this. Trit is starting to even out, but mexallon and isogen do not have enough market volume to meet the demands of even a single nullsec producer.
B) The sheer number of minerals required to do any meaningful production make befriending a highsec mining corporation (or 100 of them) infeasible. The market typically deals with these inefficiencies by dint of pricing, but there just isn't enough supply to go around, on account of the vast majority of the supply being reprocessed in a terrible manner.
C) As stated earlier, the mineral composition of nullsec anomalies and belts is primarily highends. Mulching a Colossal hidden belt provides a mere pittance of lowends required, while generating yet more highends, which are completely useless.
to
A.) There is no shortage of supply in EvE for any item that is not hard capped. You can either pay more and provide an immediate incentive or you can wait if you think the inventive is high enough and people should come around. In any case the market is right and you are not.
B.) If that is a problem for you, you have the ingame tools to solve them.
C.) That is reinforcing my point. If you need Low-Ends in 0.0 you probably should pay a premium for it in 0.0 (or in highsec for the logistical effort). That way your miners might stop mining Arkonor and start mining Veldspar solving a few problems on the way.
You have viable industry now in 0.0, but that sword cuts both ways. By current design you can't have nullsec production costs and highsec supply costs. Personally i think that is a good thing. As i said, start recruiting miners. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:This is a slight cross post from my F&I Thread: The issue isn't just compression. The issue is that there is a huge demand for minerals in nullsec, and we have no viable way of even getting close to supplying our minerals locally. .
There is a way. Stop recruiting F1 monkeys and get actual people interested in industry and not only a 5 guys with cap BPOs.
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Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Grace Chang wrote:
C.) That is reinforcing my point. If you need Low-Ends in 0.0 you probably should pay a premium for it in 0.0 (or in highsec for the logistical effort). That way your miners might stop mining Arkonor and start mining Veldspar solving a few problems on the way.
i don't know why someone who doesn't know what an ore anomoly is feels qualified to comment on this issue, but be assured this is a remarkably dumb response
There is plenty of tritanium and pyerite in 0.0. Including anomalies. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
You're misinformed about the mechanics of nullsec mining.
I am not, i used to run quite a few mining ops in 0.0.
Nullsec mining primarily occurs by way of gravimetric anomalies.
Wrong. That is one option. Not one you are forced to take. Heck, even relic sites have plenty of ore. How about you adapt to the situation instead of wanting to be spoonfed everything?
[rabble about grav sites]
The primary reason people mined high ends in 0.0 and ignored low ends (because that is what happened) is because they usually needed to ship out the compressed ore to highsec (check the old compression ratio for veldspar, gl). One factor was the lack of market and industry in 0.0 (fixed now) and generally being treated like ass by the resident holders (taxes, **** deals compared to jita). All fixable now. As i said there is plenty of low end minerals in 0.0. Grav anomalies are one option among many. Importing stuff is another, but don't whine if you have to pay a premium.
This is discounting the danger contained by mining in nullsec, but I'm willing to disregard this, as it's a separate issue (and one much less defensible at any rate.)
Mining in your blue donut, if done right, is much less dangerous than in highsec. It is probably less AFKish but that is also a good thing. You also get much improved rorqual boosts in 0.0.
I don't need it to prove my point
Well, so far you haven't.
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Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Querns wrote:Grace Chang wrote:
You're misinformed about the mechanics of nullsec mining.
I am not, i used to run quite a few mining ops in 0.0.
You can run mining ops while still being dangerously misinformed about how things actually work. Mining in RELIC sites? Really? The entire crux of your argument is that people should engage in hideously sub-optimal money making strategies to produce a pittance of the materials needed while simultaneously hitting their heads against the brick wall that is the literal game mechanics of Eve: Online, instead of adding a very small concession to highsec to ease the movement of minerals throughout the market.
You are entitled to your opinion. So am I to mine:
You want to adapt the game to your needs because you are lazy (what you call "sup-optimal"). You want to change the gameplay of many people, a gameplay i suspect you are not even remotely involved in (you are just interested in the end-product), to suit your needs. Your "very small concession" kills the gameplay for many people in highsec and something that could end up being a mini-profession. The truth of the matter is, your hassle is another persons opportunity. Too bad for you. Adapt and HTFU. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:I think it's a better idea to solve this by education instead of changing stuff around. The need for a POS to compress Ore is a nice way to introduce players to use of posses for industrial needs instead using stations for everything. On the other hand it might be nice to use some underused PI products as ingredient or 'flux material' for station compression.
It appears this is not really a high sec miners not compressing problem though seeing your trit and pyerite numbers. It looks more like nobody mining Lowsec ores, which are the major supplier of Isogen/Nocx and in a lesser amount Mex.Which is weird, as they have been the best isk/hour ores in the game for a while and with the new compression ratios you get mad isk/m3 with compressed low sec ores.
As for the High End market collapse, I think CCP should've changed Ore anomalies the same way as they did Pirate anomalies. Remove most high end ores in -0.1 and -0.2 and have more, the lower the security rating gets.
Makes perfect sense tbh. With lowsec being the most dangerous region for miners, the prices have to go up a lot more i suspect before people bother to go there with a prospect. But wouldn't it be nice if they would actually eventually do that? |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 19:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Grace Chang wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion. So am I to mine:
people are entitled to their own opinion you seem to believe you are entitled to your own facts
The facts are these: Nobody has an issue with the compression but the few capital producers in 0.0 who want to acquire minerals at pre-crius prices and volumes.
Not a big issue at all. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
36
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 09:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
With all this discussion about 0.0 belts, let us not pretend the OP was actually interested in mining.
Anybody who has ever mined knows that the asteroid belts in 0.0 contain more ore per rock on average, including the low ends. So just based on this you are already better off than highsec miners - in addition to this you have infinite grav anomalies and infinite combat anomalies which also contain ore.
But this is not what this is about. Truth is, it doesn't matter whether you could mine your materials in 0.0, because you do not have enough people to so, even if you wanted. But actually you do not even want to. You care less than a rats arse about miners, what you want is cheap minerals in your boosted production stations so you can put your Capital BPOs to work.
It has been pointed out by several people how you could adapt. But you do not want to, because that would be *effort* and you are used to the Easy Mode Module compression.
Some people have adapted, some people profit from the change, you go whine to the forums. My sympathy for you: zero.
I just double-checked on the buy orders in Jita concerning the minerals you complain you are missing. There are no decent buy orders nor orders in quantities that are significantly above the mineral value or raw ore value. So from the easiest option you have (just buy it in highsec), you probably want to wait until there is quantities on sell orders with razor thin margins. Again, my sympathy for you: zero.
If you look at the overall market for ore (not compressed ore) on eve central, it seems obvious that a significant quantity does not see the market in the first place, but is traded via contacts, contracts and buy programs. So the smart people obviously approach mining corporations and buy in bulk. But for that to work you probably need to have at least a decent reputation. Sucks for you, i guess. |
Grace Chang
Black Phoenix Legion
The Fourth District
39
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 17:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
So, after it has been pretty much established that exactly nobody, just goons, wants to change compression - any bets it is going to change? |
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